So Much Metal, And Not A Drop Of Oil! (HWW Australia)

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    • NoobNoobTrain wrote:

      This is funny.

      I'm currently playing the Blitzkrieg map and I'm constantly short on metal.

      Shortages of resources are SUPPOSED to be present in any scenario, right? Why are you asking Bytro to stop dumbing down the game and at the same time you ask for a starting resource balance that allows you to play without thinking about balancing resources. Something quirking here!
      Which country you started with ?

      And... did your Metal situation still persist after Day1 or 2 or did it turn into a surplus already?
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & fly-by phone players!

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    • z00mz00m wrote:

      You're funny. So much excitement, but you can't think of a single situation where your point matters.
      I clearly said: every map I have recently played.

      For Yugoslavia in Blitz, I even mentioned an initial and only shortlived shortage of Metal. But, as 'shortlived' indicates, that is over after Day 1.

      Now, tell me in which maps and as which country you have a Metal shortage and for what?
      (Pls don't say 'tanks', bc that would indicate you buy victory as tanks are trash)
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & fly-by phone players!

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    • If you're playing Yugoslavia, a Commie country surrounded by mostly rough terrain and access to to sea, you should build:
      1. Cruisers. Mobile gun platform with good speed, built in air defense, and decent anti-submarine attack of for have a destroyer or NB on the area to scout for you. Commies get a research level and an HP boost on cruisers. These are the bread and butter of your navy. They cost a lot of food plus some metal.
      2. Rocket artillery. Kills most of the targets you'll see in the game: unarmored and light armor, efficiency and cheaply. That like hills and mountains. They cost food and metal.
      3. Throw in some infantry upgrades and some AA+AT and you're in business. No oil used yet.
      4. Commies are bad at air superiority until jet fighters arrive. By then you should have fixed your oil shortage through industry and conquest. Enough to build jet fighters and armored cars for scouting. The backbone of your army does not need oil.
    • z00mz00m wrote:

      If you're playing Yugoslavia, a Commie country surrounded by mostly rough terrain and access to to sea, you should build:
      1. Cruisers. Mobile gun platform with good speed, built in air defense, and decent anti-submarine attack of for have a destroyer or NB on the area to scout for you. Commies get a research level and an HP boost on cruisers. These are the bread and butter of your navy. They cost a lot of food plus some metal.
      2. Rocket artillery. Kills most of the targets you'll see in the game: unarmored and light armor, efficiency and cheaply. That like hills and mountains. They cost food and metal.
      3. Throw in some infantry upgrades and some AA+AT and you're in business. No oil used yet.
      4. Commies are bad at air superiority until jet fighters arrive. By then you should have fixed your oil shortage through industry and conquest. Enough to build jet fighters and armored cars for scouting. The backbone of your army does not need oil.

      Ad1. Only fools build fleet when not absolutely necessary for protecting an overseas invasion. Any fleet threat (in the case of Yugo = Italy) can be easily neutralized with cheap, fast built Marine Bombers, which still can be useful throughout the game, even if just as a meat-shield. Fleet, however, has a shortlived functionality, unless you are an island state.

      Ad2. RA can be built only after researching on Day 2. By that time you can have multiple Artillery at the front lines. Besides that, RA competes with Tacs for Food and Manpower and a Research slot on Day 2. Ofc one thus goes for the Tacs and Artillery and not for the far more expensive RA, which, after a while becomes also less effective, because the majority of players - having beaten the even lesser ones - all assemble a Tank force. Only early game RA would have an advantage vs Infantery, but, as explained, that advantage is suffiently compensated by the earlier, cheaper Artillery in larger numbers.

      Ad3. Infantery is obsolete. They are close combat troops whose defense capacity is outmatched by the Tacs by far. The Tacs are more versatile though. And if protected by AA, the Artillery will take care of them too. Infantery is only good for occupation duties after the 1st 1 or 2 days.

      Ad4a. Yugo = Axis Doctrine. Only Commie Doctrine, spamming Artillery and Infantery, has some use for Metal over Oil early- to mid-game. But also the Commie Countries need AC, Airforce and Industry, which can't be built without Oil.

      Ad4b. Jet Fighters? Who needs them and for what? Better build up your regular Interceptors, have more and be more verstile with a good range. Jet Fighters have 1 purpose: stopping Nukes. But they do that just slightly better than regular Interceptors of which you can have more. Jets are a waste of Research Slots, time and rss.

      My way 2cents:
      Produce Artillery and AC only on Day 1.
      Produce Tac and AC on Day 2.
      No need to produce Inf, as you start with plenty, and use for protection of Arty and occupation duties.
      Continue developping Airforce and AC forces.
      You hardly need more until mid-game, where SPG and SPAA accompanied by AC rule the ground war, supported by Airforce.
      The only worthwhile Inf-class troop is Militia. Cheap and fast produced; ideal for defensive duties and occupation vs rebellion.

      That set up will get you 2-3 countries within a couple of days, while by that time, Infantery is still walking towards the original border and enemy Tanks are slowly, and most often badly protected, crawling towards your Artillery positions, only to end up as smolderings heaps of scrap before they even reach there. And should it be a big stack towards end-game, with Inf&Tanks and what not, then one performs a Tactical Withdrawal at salvo-interval resulting in the same smoldering scrap heap.

      Furthermore, your Industry needs to be Top 3 at least. This requires Oil, which you also need in volume for so many other things, due to the reduction to 3 resources.

      Therefore one has always a shortage of Oil, unless one is planning to lose.

      Even as Yugo, in the current Blitz, only now, by Day 11, I am starting to max out Metal on the 2nd core providing it.
      However, I am constantly building Industry on Food and Oil.
      By the time your country is large, you will have Moral Issues for which you need Food and ... Oil.
      hence, practically all the time Oil is the rss in short supply (no matter how much iIndustry you build), part of the time it is Food, but hardly ever Metal is. Ofc, Manpower needs not be neglected and thank the COW-Gods no Oil is needed for that too.

      This does not mean more Oil should be added to maps. The constraint is the same for everyone after all.
      But the mega-surplus of Metal is simply annoying, always ending up selling heaps of Metal to the AI buyer at 1.1 or 1.0, immediately after reset (quick! before someone else does!). Factually exchanging 33 Metal for 0.9 Oil (bc of the ridiculously high trade commissions).

      The game used to be better!
      Everyone who loves this game and has played it for a while, should be in mourning over the cheap monetization campaign that has been unleashed.
      Bytro are not stupid after all, thus creating (relative) scarcity of one rss and a surplus of another is deliberate: it stimulates buying rss and many will do that with bought gold.
      That is all what this RSS-Ruined downgrade was about, as was the WB downgrade.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & fly-by phone players!

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      The post was edited 7 times, last by vonlettowvorbeck ().

    • Most of what you write is incorrect.

      Yugoslavia is a Commie country on every map, even Antarctica and Christmas.

      Cruisers are useful all game, especially at the start when AI try to rush the beach and give you easy kills. Long term, their resistance to bombers remains an advantage.

      Rocket artillery do twice as much damage as regular artillery at the start of the game when where are no heavy armor units around. And the cost less manpower. And they are available on day 1 for Commies.

      Infantry upgrade to 3 or 4 is one of the best investments in the game. Great defense against light armor, great meat shield for artillery battles. Show me another close combat unit with better effectiveness than level 4 infantry on day 4. No need to build more, just upgrade what you start with.

      If you need more AA then either build AA guns or an air force, whatever works better for your play style and your doctrine.

      I get that you're mad about recent changes, and you have good cause to be mad. But do the math before you make extravagant claims. I used to be a huge artillery fan years ago, but the introduction of RA and the repeat nerfing of artillery power plus cost inflation has forced me to reconsider. It no longer makes sense to build that unit in most cases. It's doing 1-2 HP damage every 30 minutes while costing more manpower than any other day 1 unit. That's just a bad return on investment. Pan Asian artillery still makes sense, most of the time, but only because of the anti-unarmored bonus and doctrine terrain bonuses make it almost comparable to rocket artillery while being available a day earlier. For other doctrines, it's often not worth the cost.
    • z00mz00m wrote:

      Most of what you write is incorrect.

      Yugoslavia is a Commie country on every map, even Antarctica and Christmas.

      Cruisers are useful all game, especially at the start when AI try to rush the beach and give you easy kills. Long term, their resistance to bombers remains an advantage.

      Rocket artillery do twice as much damage as regular artillery at the start of the game when where are no heavy armor units around. And the cost less manpower. And they are available on day 1 for Commies.

      Infantry upgrade to 3 or 4 is one of the best investments in the game. Great defense against light armor, great meat shield for artillery battles. Show me another close combat unit with better effectiveness than level 4 infantry on day 4. No need to build more, just upgrade what you start with.

      If you need more AA then either build AA guns or an air force, whatever works better for your play style and your doctrine.

      I get that you're mad about recent changes, and you have good cause to be mad. But do the math before you make extravagant claims. I used to be a huge artillery fan years ago, but the introduction of RA and the repeat nerfing of artillery power plus cost inflation has forced me to reconsider. It no longer makes sense to build that unit in most cases. It's doing 1-2 HP damage every 30 minutes while costing more manpower than any other day 1 unit. That's just a bad return on investment. Pan Asian artillery still makes sense, most of the time, but only because of the anti-unarmored bonus and doctrine terrain bonuses make it almost comparable to rocket artillery while being available a day earlier. For other doctrines, it's often not worth the cost.
      Practically all you write is incorrect (unless you are a gold player).

      Ad0. Yugo = Axis on Blitz. Thank you Taffyta. Someone is paying attention :)

      Ad1. Ships, CA or whatever:
      - cannot take provs
      - can only do battle at sea with other fleets (which you don't have to if you don't have one)
      - can only shoot at troops in coastal areas, so just don't put troops there (whereas, in that case, even Artillery can shoot back effectively at CAs)
      - early game, any number of ships can easily and cheaply be taken out by a limited number of low level Marine Bombers, which are cheap, swiftly researched and quickly produced, needing facilities you would anyway build, ánd which remain somewhat usefull all game, even after destroying any fleet threats.
      Hence, fleet is unnecessary, unless crossing a large strecth of water with ground troops, e.g. Xinjiang invading USA.
      In all other cases you are better off with Marine Bombers, especially bc they are so cheap (fighter price), quickly researched and built.
      Not building fleet saves you research slots and time, money and rss, which can be put to far more useful use.

      Ad2. RA indeed does more damage than Artillery vs Infantery Class. Twice as much even... BUT...
      - RA can be researched only on Day 2. For every RA you can build by then, I will have multiple Artillery already (and your country if you were my neighbour)
      - RA is more expensive and costing only 100 Manpower less at level 1
      - RA is only better as long as there is little armor around, thus only early game, where it arrives late
      - RA level 2 can only be researched on Day 6, which is again late
      Only exception is Commies indeed, but that exception only proves the rule.

      Ad3. Inf being a good investment for close combat can be relatively true, but why do close combat if you can avoid it?
      On the other hand, early game, armor is limited and when you have invested in faster and stronger AC, those Inf you develop will easily be smashed by Airforce & Artillery on defence and be turned into minced meat by ACs if attacking.
      Again, the only exception being Commies, for which spamming Inf+Arty is a good option early game.

      Ad4. PA Doctrine bonusses are great for any type of unit. Also the speed and sight is wonderful. It is the only doctrine I do sometimes develop RA for, because the RA is so bloody fast (42kmh at level 1). And before the rss-situation in most of Asia prompted you to also.
      However, terrain bonusses of other doctrines for Arty are also good enough. They do not change the fact that on Day 1 you can have multiple Artillery, smashing your enemy and only 0 RA. If not using gold or WBs, RA will only become availabel after 17 hrs of research, thus factually only effectively available at the front lines on almost Day3. By then My 3rd or 4th neighbour will have surrendered his provinces to me and late Day 2/early Day 3, Tacs will have taken over the 'smashing'.

      Ad4. AA is not needed very early game. After a couple of days it is. But the power of the more dangerous plane ( the Tac) vs armor is still low.
      Focus on AC is sufficient to counter the threat of Tacs. By the time Tacs become more dangerous to light armor, the AA capacity of the AC will have increased too and you will have Interceptors. Possibly you will have SPG with SPAA running around already, which will kill any threat on the ground or from the sky if played right.

      It seems we have very different playstyles, but I do quite a bit of battle. Especially lately I have been playing far more than I intended.
      In none of these 5 or 6 - and all victorious - games, ranging from X-mas Antarctica to Blitz:
      - my economy was the 1st or at least top 3
      - I have had to invest nothing much in Metal production.
      - but always had a shortage of primarly Oil, then Food, then Manpower.
      - I had a truly annoying surplus of Metal. So much that AI can't even buy it all and I would be left with 150k unused, unsellable Metal.

      So, maybe it is partly the playstyle, but most of what you write is simply incorrect :)
      Did you consider that your method maybe only works if not going solo?

      PS: read up on the 'partisan history' and how Tito's partisan army gained the image they have, whereas the Chetniks are painted as the bad guys only. It is all rather dubious ... and prolly there were no good guys at all! The Axis were not unfirendly with the Yugo-Gov and likewise. Had the Axis been more friendly towards Tito, he might well have switched sides also, but with his Commie background and Stalin being as evil as Adolf, does it matter?
      When it comes to weaponry, the partisans had a few Saulnier interceptors, some British drops, but they fought foremost with captured material, which was Axis.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & fly-by phone players!

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      The post was edited 12 times, last by vonlettowvorbeck ().

    • I agree with you , naval bombers are better than useless ships especially you have a oil rich country
      if you have to produce cruisers you are only poor oil country
      and you will need at least one high level destroyer to scout enemy submarines and it will work only if you are very active player , your research slots will be very busy with ships
      on the other side axis submarines especially have speed bonus and -1/-2 day availability , commie cruiser guys easy hunt for these guys , your cruisers cant shoot and run against a few groups
      and guess what ? submarines need oil too

      need only 20 min to research and with war bonds you can produce many naval bombers in 5 minutes
      naval bombers can help to tactical bombers to destroy small targets at every location
      you can use them as meat shields for other main planes
      you can send them easily to help your allies
      if you have a country like greece , unite them with interceptors and patrolling at coasts very cool while going sleeping at x4 speed servers

      if you have many oil at the beginning life is beautiful , like as noone playing oceanian countries don't need to play useless metal countries even with your 3 metal province you have a stock you can't spend
    • Taffyta Muttonfudge wrote:

      @Undaunted cant get over how he loses so much so he likes to throw insult around at other players like what he did to @jubjub bird in bhutan game.
      yeah I cant find 5 friends from clan and 5 friends from academy clan to join even 22p maps
      so I'm angry LOL

      I could order rookie guy attack to this enemy stack so I can eat it easily but I have no rookie

      whyyy I'm not glorious like zoomzoom why god why I could have 9999999 k/d ratio like him whyyy god
    • vonlettowvorbeck wrote:

      NoobNoobTrain wrote:

      This is funny.

      I'm currently playing the Blitzkrieg map and I'm constantly short on metal.

      Shortages of resources are SUPPOSED to be present in any scenario, right? Why are you asking Bytro to stop dumbing down the game and at the same time you ask for a starting resource balance that allows you to play without thinking about balancing resources. Something quirking here!
      Which country you started with ?
      And... did your Metal situation still persist after Day1 or 2 or did it turn into a surplus already?
      This was UK. And the shortage was a concern at least for like 7 days (game ended at day 8 or 9).
    • Currentlu in a WAW as Tibet and the tweaks seem to have resulted in some changes.
      Doesn't change the fact that having only 3 rss combinations for everything makes the game less interesting.
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & fly-by phone players!

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    • noticing the same.
      food more of an issue; oil less

      it is okay to have rss management issues. they must be not unreasonable for one, while having a mega surplus of the other
      STOP THE DUMBIFICATION in favor of P2W & fly-by phone players!

      SENIOR REFLECTION MANAGER
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      "We can be wrong & we can know this and still do both" - a random Gen-Z, politician or gaming company CEO