Pinned State-based damage efficiency

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    • Knowing that 6 light tanks must be together for max efficiency, what should we do when we have, for example, 8 light tanks on the battlefield ?

      So, if we want to attack 3 light tanks, is it better to attack with :

      - 8 light tanks (with 92% efficiency or 92% sbde) ?
      - 6 tanks + 2 tanks (with 100% sbde for each group) ?
      - 4 tanks + 4 tanks (100% sbde for each group) ?
      - 6 tanks, keeping the 2 extra tanks nearby for adding another one in the battle once 1 tank is lost in the battle ?
      - another combination ?

      Thank you
    • Coral that really depends on what you are attacking but I would take your 6 tanks straight in to enemy territory, and use the other two to take undefended provinces to each side.

      Although on a really tough target where I expected heavy losses I would send all 8 as one stack, presuming that after a couple of battles I would lose a tank or two.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

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    • Techrax wrote:

      A group of 8 Sub's is 95% Stat Based Efficiency even tho you said it in this thread???
      Yes, look at the last three posts before yours Techrax, where this was discussed. The sbde limits on subs were adjusted.

      I have gone back and edited the lists in this thread for the people who only read the first page and don't read to the end for the latest information.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
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      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

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    • An un-advertised update to the SBDE of Rocket Fighters was apparently included with the recent balancing changes.


      Edit to the lists in this thread today to read:

      Rocket fighters - 3



      Thanks to @byzantion1683 for pointing this out.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
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    • attacker101 wrote:

      so what happens when you stack over the SBDE. does that make your troops weaker or stronger?
      Their efficiency goes down.

      Consider this example with a stack of 16infantry units:

      The first 8 infantry will function, and the rest are mostly along for the ride. They are hiding behind the first 8 with their hands in their pockets and trying not to get shot at, while taking credit for the accomplishments of the first 8.

      This is how I see SBDE. As your stack gets larger the effectiveness goes down. Now to be fair there is a curve of efficiency, it is not an abrupt drop off after the limit. I prefer to think of it as a fairly strict limit though, and that works well.

      Now if you have 8 infantry and 8 militia (not really recommended, but for example purposes) in one group then each unit is 100% effective.



      To put numbers to it with level 1 units;
      Infantry attack infantry class with 2.0
      Militia attack infantry class with 1.5

      16 infantry are only as effective as 8. 8*2.0 =16 damage against infantry

      compared to

      (8 infantry * 2.0) + (8 militia * 1.5) = 28 damage against infantry.



      So in each case you produced 16 units, but you do a lot more damage with a properly arranged group.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
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      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

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    • Sbde not make sense to me at all. I know how it function but i do not like it at all. idea is that some troops are taking space from other from same stack, like there is not enough space for all of them take action. But when you patrol with 10 fighters and 10 tac. bombers you have less sbde then when you spit that stack in two, they are more dangerous and they do not disturb each other even they are in patrol over the same circle. Logic? None. But that is the way the game function. Many things are not logic, but moderators keep saying how that is in real life.

      VorlonFCW wrote:

      Now if you have 8 infantry and 8 militia (not really recommended, but for example purposes) in one group then each unit is 100% effective.
      Why would 8 infantry and 8 militia be more effective than 16 infantry? I know things are like that in game, but why would they be more effective in real life? Maybe Militia do not hide? :)

      I can imagine that some troops would disturb other troops if there is to many in one stack, so in my opinion sbde should consider all units in one stack, or in one circle of patrol. Than if you have stack with more units sbde of all of them should drop.
      "Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance - to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.
    • patriota75 wrote:

      Why would 8 infantry and 8 militia be more effective than 16 infantry? I know things are like that in game, but why would they be more effective in real life? Maybe Militia do not hide?
      Maybe Infantry are taller, so they shoot over the heads of the militia. ;)



      Probably more factual than you think. Militia are common people with a rifle. Infantry at least had horses.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Main Administrator
      EN Support Team | Bytro Labs Gmbh

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • "Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance - to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.
    • Units beyond SBDE limit do seem to have some attack power. I have checked this with different stacks but didn't see a consistent value for the extra beyond SBDE.

      Example: 7 subs @ 100% has 7 units of attack, 8 subs @ 95% has 8*0.95 = 7.6 units of attack (value of 1 unit depends on research level and type of target.) In this case the extra sub attacks at 60% power. Using similar calculations, different stacks have given different results.
    • patriota75 wrote:

      "Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance
      - to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they
      break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth
      knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When
      they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they
      have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in
      death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.

      Browser games are an ingenious business idea to lure out money -
      - more or less cleverly camouflaged as a real game sometimes.
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      Warning! Texts above this signature may contain traces of irony! :whistling:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Restrisiko ().

    • @ Restrisiko
      Something like that, but in battle for Cer was not a draw, Serbian army defeated superior Austro-hungarian army . Now we have population about 7 M people and I assume we would have 40 M if we did not participate in almost every war that was in Europe in last let say 300 years. We had great casualties in WWI and WWII. In both we were on wining side.
      But this is of topic, in my video I wanted to show why only one row is more efficient. :)
      "Then, when you run out of ammunition and the enemy continues to advance - to the bayonet, when they break your knife - to your hands, when they break both of your hands - to your teeth, when you get the last tooth knocked out, as long as you move, as long you are there - attack! When they mortally wound you, see to it that you fall in their way, so they have to go around you, jump over you or move you - bother them even in death!" speech of lieutenant Tasic before battle of Cer 1914.
    • Nooberium wrote:

      Units beyond SBDE limit do seem to have some attack power. I have checked this with different stacks but didn't see a consistent value for the extra beyond SBDE.

      Example: 7 subs @ 100% has 7 units of attack, 8 subs @ 95% has 8*0.95 = 7.6 units of attack (value of 1 unit depends on research level and type of target.) In this case the extra sub attacks at 60% power. Using similar calculations, different stacks have given different results.
      Of course, there isnt a hard cap from 100 to 0, but efficiency will gradually go down on several thresholds. For subs the values are for example: 1-7=100% 8=60% 9=30% 10=10% 11+=5%. Every unit has different values like this.
    • freezy wrote:

      Of course, there isnt a hard cap from 100 to 0, but efficiency will gradually go down on several thresholds. For subs the values are for example: 1-7=100% 8=60% 9=30% 10=10% 11+=5%. Every unit has different values like this.
      I was checking the sbde values for tactical bombers and they appear to be illogical, to put it mildly, since they seem to create another almost optimum value, of 7 (instead of 5). Was this done on purpose?

      My second question is more general: why was it chosen to apply the sbde only on the attacking value, and not on the defense hit points as well? Using the arguments at the start of this post, I can easily claim that if you pack far too many tanks in the same area, not only they attack less efficiently, but also a random bomb falling in that area will lead to far greater damage.

      In fact, if SBDE was treated like an extra "reverse fortification" modifier, it would lead, in my opinion, to making the game even more strategic, as it would lead to a much bigger disadvantage for the simplistic view "let's stack everything together, and let's only go for one type of units".