M4a3e8(76)w vs Panzer V vs T34

Pablo22510 · May 24th 2016, 6:08pm

MihailMD wrote:

So what do you call these if not excuses for the Germany's defeat?
Are you that?
That's why I mentioned Alzheimer's.

Excuse: an explanation offered as a reason for being excused; a plea offered in extenuation of a fault or for release from an obligation, promise,etc.:

Reason: a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action:

I am NOT giving excuses for Germany's defeat, because what I'm saying isn't a "plea offered in extenuation of a fault". And because I'm not bloody German, so I don't have to give excuses. What I'm giving is reasons for Germany's defeat. "A statement presented in...explanation of a belief...". And my belief is that Germany could have won the war if it wasn't for Hitler. Notice the difference?

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 6:09pm

Pablo22510 wrote:

And my belief is that Germany could have won the war if it wasn't for Hitler.

You're still wrong.

Quality may top quantity, but quantity is a quality in it's own right.

Pablo22510 · May 24th 2016, 6:12pm

Quasi-duck wrote:

You're still wrong.

Quality may top quantity, but quantity is a quality in it's own right.

Yes, but Russian manpower would run out eventually, as the further east the German army would have travelled from Moscow, the less people for the USSR.

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 6:18pm

Pablo22510 wrote:

as the further east the German army would have travelled from Moscow, the less people for the USSR.

That doesn't matter. The Germans could not get that far. If they somehow managed to, their own supply lines would kill them.

Pablo22510 · May 24th 2016, 6:20pm

Quasi-duck wrote:

That doesn't matter. The Germans could not get that far. If they somehow managed to, their own supply lines would kill them.

The Germans would have gotten that far if it wasn't for Hitler. And supply lines can be successfully established, you know? The Germans had some pretty good trains.

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 6:24pm

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans had some pretty good trains.

That doesn't matter. German trains could not run on Soviet tracks, so they had to lay down new tracks wherever they went.

Pablo22510 wrote:

And supply lines can be successfully established, you know?

They were stretched to their limits at Moscow, the lines only got longer and wider from then on.

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans would have gotten that far if it wasn't for Hitler.

There is zero proof of this.

Pablo22510 · May 24th 2016, 6:29pm

Quasi-duck wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans had some pretty good trains.

That doesn't matter. German trains could not run on Soviet tracks, so they had to lay down new tracks wherever they went.

Pablo22510 wrote:

And supply lines can be successfully established, you know?

They were stretched to their limits at Moscow, the lines only got longer and wider from then on.

Pablo22510 wrote:

The Germans would have gotten that far if it wasn't for Hitler.

There is zero proof of this.

So what? Lay them down!
The capture of a big city allows a supply line to stretch longer.
Hitler took overall command of the German Wehrmacht in December '41. All downhill in Russia from then on.

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 6:34pm

Pablo22510 wrote:

So what? Lay them down!

That costs money, steel, and labour. Germany lacked all of those.

Pablo22510 wrote:

The capture of a big city allows a supply line to stretch longer.

Hitler wanted to turn Moscow into a lake.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Hitler took overall command of the German Wehrmacht in December '41. All downhill in Russia from then on.

The invasion had barely started.......

Pablo22510 · May 24th 2016, 6:37pm

Quasi-duck wrote:

That costs money, steel, and labour. Germany lacked all of those.

Money - no. Steel - yes, but can get from the Russkie lines. Labour - no.

Quasi-duck wrote:

Hitler wanted to turn Moscow into a lake.

Which proves my point that Hitler was a nutter and that Germany lost the war because of him.

Quasi-duck wrote:

The invasion had barely started.......

And the Wehrmacht was already at Moscow's gates, and from December '41 'til May '45, the only thing the German army did was retreat from Moscow.

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 6:41pm

Pablo22510 wrote:

Money - no. Steel - yes, but can get from the Russkie lines. Labour - no.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Which proves my point that Hitler was a nutter and that Germany lost the war because of him.

Not really, just that the generals were dumb enough to do what a moron would tell them.

Pablo22510 wrote:

from December '41 'til May '45, the only thing the German army did was retreat from Moscow.

Ehm, no? That is blatantly false.

Pablo22510 · May 24th 2016, 8:06pm

Quasi-duck wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

Money - no. Steel - yes, but can get from the Russkie lines. Labour - no.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Pablo22510 wrote:

Which proves mythhey point that Hitler was a nutter and that Germany lost the war because of him.

Not really, just that the generals were dumb enough to do what a moron would tell them.

Pablo22510 wrote:

from December '41 'til May '45, the only thing the German army did was retreat from Moscow.

Ehm, no? That is blatantly false.

Not short of money. Short of steel, but could get it by melting Sov rails.
Very few people have said 'no' to Hitler, and most of them had sticky ends. E.g. Rommel.
From Dec. '41 onwards, the Wehrmacht retreated from Moscow. They advanced elsewhere, but they retreated from Moscow.

GreatbigHippo · May 24th 2016, 8:52pm

Quasi-duck wrote:

Pablo22510 wrote:

And my belief is that Germany could have won the war if it wasn't for Hitler.

You're still wrong.
Quality may top quantity, but quantity is a quality in it's own right.

The only way quantity tops quality is by throwing so much fodder into the enemy that they run out of ammunition.

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 8:58pm

Pablo22510 wrote:

Not short of money. Short of steel, but could get it by melting Sov rails.

Oh yeah, I forgot. Jewish and Soviet slave labour. Not like they never sabotaged anything. Oh wait.....

Pablo22510 wrote:

Very few people have said 'no' to Hitler, and most of them had sticky ends. E.g. Rommel.

Ever heard of a coup? When people work together, you can do anything!

Pablo22510 wrote:

From Dec. '41 onwards, the Wehrmacht retreated from Moscow. They advanced elsewhere, but they retreated from Moscow.

And? That means the majority of his work lead to advances. Moscow was a tough nut to crack.

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 8:59pm

GreatbigHippo wrote:

The only way quantity tops quality is by throwing so much fodder into the enemy that they run out of ammunition.

Nope! #deepoperationswithwellco-ordinatedsupportandastrongarmouredspearheadwithtoomanyreinforcementstocount

oceanhawk · May 24th 2016, 9:04pm

MihailMD wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Quasi-duck wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Then explain how the Germans were winning the war in 41?

Unexpected attack and most of Soviet air forces destroyed on the ground.

Combined with superior armor, better troops and Generals. With the best moral as well!

is that why they lost?? What a shame in such case ))))

lost cos of the soviets buddies to the west.
Germans could have taken Russia no bother. But yea.. Hitler.. that idiot
as well as the soviet allies, to the west..

oceanhawk · May 24th 2016, 9:05pm

Soviets have 2 things to thank, for surviving that war..

United States of America, and her allies
Adolf Hitler

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 9:11pm

oceanhawk wrote:

United States of America, and her allies

Shouldn't this be the UK and her allies? 'Cos, y'know, the British did send a lot of tea as well as Matilda II's, although when these were sent they were already outdated and the Reds didn't like them because they were slow, bad when you gotta move fast like a Soviet army. #rememberManchuria

oceanhawk wrote:

Adolf Hitler

That is ridiculous, he started the bloody thing and killed loads of innocents 'cause he just didn't like them.

Paramunac · May 24th 2016, 9:19pm

oceanhawk wrote:

Soviets have 2 things to thank, for surviving that war..

United States of America, and her allies
Adolf Hitler

America has to thank Soviet Union for defeating Hitler, unless they wanted to fight war in streets of New York and Washington, because fighting to defend your country is much different than sending soldiers to other parts of world. Americans were spared of fighting war on their territory, destruction of their country by nazism and horrors caused by it. It is something that makes men fight with all their strength. Soviets probably didn't have as advanced army as Germans in some aspects, but their cause to fight was much more just than German, and while Stalin was probably terrible for his own people, they didn't fight for him but for their families and countrymen and that is what made the difference.

And number two is just stupid. If there wasn't for Hitler, there would be no war. Making excuses for German defeat by blaming what Germany was makes no sense. And Germany was Hitler.

oceanhawk · May 24th 2016, 9:22pm

Paramunac wrote:

oceanhawk wrote:

Soviets have 2 things to thank, for surviving that war..

United States of America, and her allies
Adolf Hitler

America has to thank Soviet Union for defeating Hitler, unless they wanted to fight war in streets of New York and Washington, because fighting to defend your country is much different than sending soldiers to other parts of world. Americans were spared of fighting war on their territory, destruction of their country by nazism and horrors caused by it. It is something that makes men fight with all their strength. Soviets probably didn't have as advanced army as Germans in some aspects, but their cause to fight was much more just than German, and while Stalin was probably terrible for his own people, they didn't fight for him but for their families and countrymen and that is what made the difference.
And number two is just stupid. If there wasn't for Hitler, there would be no war. Making excuses for German defeat by blaming what Germany was makes no sense. And Germany was Hitler.

Germany, was not Hitler
That is a horrible thing to say. The soviet union, did help the allies. That cannot be denied. But the only reason USSR managed to survive is because of Hitler as well as the allied support.

If Germany had taken, the USSR. I dont know if Germany would have taken america. Id say so
The soviets helped the Americans, but no where near as much as the Americans helped the soviets

Quasi-duck · May 24th 2016, 9:23pm

Paramunac wrote:

Stalin was probably terrible for his own people, they didn't fight for him but for their families and countrymen and that is what made the difference.

Actually, they did. There was a cult of personality. I read some of a book about the Night Witches and the rest of their unit, all they wanted to do was fly, serve the Motherland and Stalin.

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