Limits on Depicting Fascism / Nazism in Roleplay

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  • Limits on Depicting Fascism / Nazism in Roleplay

    Should fictionalized fascist / totalitarian political material of the type shown be allowed on CoW? 30
    1.  
      Yes, absolutey! (25) 83%
    2.  
      Yes, but only if all similarities to German entities like the Waffen SS or Wehrmacht never appear. (4) 13%
    3.  
      No. (1) 3%
    Hello Call of War forum members!

    This is a posting for you serious roleplay members out there who enjoy immersing yourself in the history and politics of WW2 while playing CoW, especially within the diplomatic and newspaper features.

    Recently, while playing a 100 player game, some coalition members and I were reported for violating TOS by our supposed depiction / approval of Nazism. We were a bit puzzled because we had gone out of our way to censor any blatant references to Nazism — swastikas, SS runes, anti-semitism, and so forth.

    We were essentially using German style propaganda and posters but CENSORING, REMOVING, and EDITING all presence of Nazi symbols.

    Specifically…

    We had a coalition called the “Teutonic Order”, making reference to the old medieval knights of that namesake. We used their black and white cross (which Germany’s military still uses today) and a shield with a triple triad Viking symbol called the “Valknut” which is not regularly associated with Nazism or white supremacist groups.






    We also used Nazi era posters but replaced all the obvious Nazi symbols with our own symbol and flags…


































    We replaced fanatical Nazism with our own fictional historical, fanatical “Odinism”— a belief in the supremacy of the old Norse worship of Odin and his pantheon of gods. We never made reference to Hitler or any of his leadership, but instead used a character named "Marshal Rurik", a supposed fanatical Swedish persona looking to resurrect the Viking legacy and used pictures of Christian X of Denmark for his likeness.




    We were definitely crafting an “evil” entity who became more and more fanatical — e.g. delivering rants against "Bolshevism", "Libyanism", "Americanism", etc — against whoever our enemy was. :D

    But we were in very good faith trying to create an immersive, alternate history that felt like WW2 but was NOT making direct reference to Nazism.

    I am curious to hear from members of this forum if you think the content we posted (as exampled above) really runs afoul of TOS.

    (Not by the lawyerly definition that governs this site because those are always blanket statements and cover everything, but rather in the actual practical definition of what is allowed.)

    We think our content was equivalent to what would be done with Germans in any mainstream WW2 game — from Wolfenstein to CoD to Panzer General. And in consideration of the fact that a German company runs this game, we also believe that our content does not contravene any of the German anti-nazi legislation.

    I absolutely love the diplomatic, political, and propagandistic element which is included with the game. But if it is too censored—i.e. we are not allowed to create authoritarian, fanatical, militaristic ideologies—it definitely takes away from the immersion potential of role playing.

    WW2 was, after all, defined by a struggle between totalitarian ideologies!

    We are hoping that what we did IS allowed and will be appreciated, particularly by the hardcore roleplaying gamers of the community.

    Next time, my friends and I play, we definitely are interested in playing with serious roleplayers who get into the history element and do not "break character'' with modern slang and meme type nonsense. So be sure to let me know if you are starting such a game!

    Cheers,
    Marshal Rurik

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Marshal_Rurik ().

  • It is actually against the ToS, I think, to relate to Nazi and Socialist parties.


    Dr. Leprechan wrote:

    The same game rules apply to coalitions as to the in-game newspaper. These are the rules that we all agreed to when we created our Bytro | Call of War accounts, here is a recap;

    1.Using profanity, sexual references/images, Terrorist Organizations and insulting other players is not permitted.

    2. Please be aware that imaginary related to fascism and National Socialism is strictly forbidden. If you use such symbols, names, or praise of National Socialism and fascism, we may edit/delete your coalition, ban you from game round or delete your account.

    All our rules can be found in the forums in the “Terms of Use Section”
    Pax Romana Communications Officer

  • Hello Strange Talent. Thanks for responding!

    But I am not sure you read my post carefully—because one of my main points was that we CENSORED OUT all obvious Nazi symbols of National Socialism and did not espouse their ideology (perhaps except for an emphasis on discipline, harshness, sacrifice, and anti-Communism).

    Surely not all images and themes tangentially "related" to the Third Reich would be banned—e.g. photos of Wehrmacht soldiers, etc.

    Because you can't very well have a decent WW2 simulation / roleplay wherein we exclude all reference to the main instigators of the darned conflict! :)

    And what about Stalinism, an ideology and government every bit as murderous and evil as Nazism? You never see as much opposition to depicting the symbols and imagery of that terrible entity.

    (There's a double standard, if there ever was one. Propagated by the masses who don't study history.)

    I know the broad, vague description of what the TOS says.

    But what I really want to know is — where do people specifically think the line should be drawn?

    The game itself uses images of German soldiers and vehicles, so we know the limit is not there. So where is it?
  • Yes,

    Saying you are the Schutzstaffel and talking about killing Jews—that would obviously cross the line.

    But what if you are making an alternate history for your country (lets' say Australia) and decide to have them be a militaristic, authoritarian regime who dislikes another ideology (let's say Capitalism / Christianity)?

    And you use make a coalition flag that is reminiscent of historically fascistic ones, but uses invented or novel images not normally associated with fascism.

    (This is basically what we did.)

    In other words, can we use the style but not substance of past fascistic regimes?

    Because here is a simple fact—the Nazis and Italians did not invent fascism. Such a form of government has existed for thousands of years, within many empires.
  • I've made a faction in my RP that is loosely based off of Al-Qaeda, I haven't actually launched the game yet, but basically the faction just opposes the west for their imperialistic tendencies. Therefore they are not depicted as Muslim extremists in my RP, I think I've safely dodged the ToS.
    Make America Great Again.

    #Trump2016
  • No

    All Terrorist groups, anything to do with Nazis, all are against the ToS

    If it wasn't there would be Nazi RPs for days, but there isn't, (before you say "But Freedom of speech", yeah, welcome to a German run game in Germany, which doesn't have total freedom of speech ; ) )
    How many regert electing the current US president, and if not, please, tell me why you havent yet, id love to here you, hopefully smart answer.
  • Marshal_Rurik wrote:

    Yes, I would agree.

    Promoting hate, especially towards ethnicities in your roleplay would be crossing the line.

    But if you said you were out to triumph over Bolsheviks, or Christians, or Capitalists... That should probably be allowed.
    I know this is a very old topic, but I am a Christian. I don't like the idea of my religion being a target of hatred by any group. Yet, many people seem to think it's perfectly fine to do so. Since my kind isn't treated like an ethnicity, people think it's OK to bash us.

    On the other hand, they say you shouldn't bash the Jews....not because it's a faith, rather, but because it's an ethnicity. Actually, judaism is a faith, Jews are a sub-ethnicity (a subgroup of the Semitic ethnicity) and Jews are also a nationality (the ancient and modern people of Israel).

    While I agree that Jews should be treated with respect, I'd like to lay some truth on the table. Christians are not an ethnicity. We are made up of people from every race, creed, tribe, and color. In fact, we have no exclusions except that one be born-again, that is to say that a person chooses to accept a rebirth of their spirit by accepting Jesus as their personal savior through the act of placing their sincere faith in Jesus as God and Lord over them.

    Christians are a nationality. The people of the Church are a nation -- a people set apart -- whose citizenship is in Heaven, first. More accurately, it should be stated that our citizenship is in the Kingdom of God....both as heirs of the Kingdom as well as of the family of God. I'm an American, so my citizenship is in the USA, but I'm a dual citizen with the Kingdom of God as my primary citizenship and the USA is only secondary to my identity as one whom the Lord has granted permanent citizenship in His kingdom.

    Back to the main topic, though, I do sometimes like to Roleplay in this game such that I have a Christian Empire and the "fictional" enemies tend to be the secular humanists and atheists. And I can do this, legitimately, since the secularists and atheists try to claim that their false beliefs are not a religion. Therefore, humanists and atheists (and all the other "ists") really have no identity which can be protected by any reasonable interpretation of the rules and laws applicable to Call of War.

    Thus, by that reasoning, I am never in violation when I target humanists and atheists in my roleplaying games. Yet, if anyone targets me for my Imperialist Christian roleplaying, they are in danger of getting banned by the staff. Now that is irony!



    Onward Christian Soldiers

    (Verse 1)
    Onward Christian soldiers!
    Marching as to war,
    With the cross of Jesus
    Going on before.
    Christ, the royal Master,
    Leads against the foe;
    Forward into battle,
    See, His banners go!

    (Chorus)
    Onward, Christian soldiers!
    Marching as to war,
    With the cross of Jesus,
    Going on before.

    (Verse 2)
    At the name of Jesus
    Satan’s host doth flee;
    On then, Christian soldiers,
    On to victory!
    Hell’s foundations quiver
    At the shout of praise:
    Brothers, lift your voices,
    Loud your anthems raise!

    (Chorus)

    (Verse 3)
    Like a mighty army
    Moves the Church of God:
    Brothers, we are treading
    Where the saints have trod;
    We are not divided,
    All one Body we—
    One in faith and Spirit,
    One eternally.

    (Chorus)

    (Verse 4)
    Crowns and thrones may perish,
    Kingdoms rise and wane;
    But the Church of Jesus
    Constant will remain.
    Gates of hell can never
    ’Gainst the Church prevail;
    We have Christ’s own promise,
    Which can never fail.

    (Chorus)

    (Verse 5)
    Onward, then, ye people!
    Join our happy throng;
    Blend with ours your voices
    In the triumph song.
    Glory, laud and honor
    Unto Christ, the King;
    This through countless ages
    Men and angels sing.

    (Chorus)

    It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all.

    The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended.

    R.I.P. Snickers <3

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Diabolical ().

  • I have roleplayed on CoW for... over two years... i have RPed freely without notice mostly. i agree that what the nazis did where horrible and inhuman to say the least. i do not view any races or ethnicities as inferior or superior to others or myself.

    But Roleplay is supposed to be depicting (atleast in Roleplay about historic events) history. to say Roleplaying in that kind of way is racist is wrong or insensitive, thats not right. me and my freinds are not racist. but ofcourse racists and nazis will use this as a way to further their views. its not right that they do so, it truly is not.

    The TOS clearly states that nazism is forbiden, ill respect that. this poll will do nothing, since the TOS is under German law and can not be changed for that.

    German law forbids glorifying and supporting nazism and nationalism, we have to respect that, and not let Bytro come into a lawsuit. i recomend RPing in Discord and useing Call of war as the map, it works, just use the Discord for the newspaper! and then you don't need highcommand to post pictures. its a win win win for all sides.
  • I don't think we need to discuss 2+ year old threads all over again.


    Thread closed.
    War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



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