Odds of an insurrection?

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    • Odds of an insurrection?

      So, I am kicking down doors and clearing rooms.

      Now I have to deal with the fact that there may be a spontaneous military rising up out of the conquered ground behind me as I chase down the last of the "dead enders" that did not get the word that the war is lost.

      What is not obvious to me is if this means that I will have to maintain a military occupation force in every territory that is conquered. So far, it seems like I need to leave something in each territory but I'm hoping that eventually the morale rises high enough that I can keep moving troops forward. Otherwise, this is really starting to feel like a glorified game of Risk.

      :wallbash Frustrating to see an otherwise good game mechanic crippled in how it deals with a defeated nation.
    • Provinces of morale below 35% have a change to revolt. The lower the morale the higher the revolt chance. Click the "i" by province morale to find a given province's chance to revolt. Add garrison to lower chance to revolt.

      Province morale changes every day at day change. Fortifications will help morale rise more quickly. Being at war, having enemy neighbors, low morale neighbors, and distance to Capitol also effect morale.
      Hope this help :)
      Free Time looks good on me
    • POL4R wrote:

      The only provinces that will revolt are those that border another nation. Usually having around 2 units in each bordered province will prevent an uprising.
      Not totally true, provinces past your border can and will revolt. It may seem that way if the war machine is moving slowly enough that morale is rising fast enough to prevent this, But it is very possible for a completely surrounded territory to revolt.

      "Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war"




      "The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy."Friedrich Nietzsche
    • right

      its part of the game mechanics and a very smart part indeed.

      The morale depends on
      1. the distance of the given province to your capital
      2. the morale of adjacend provinces you own
      3. hostile provinces around
      4. a bonus of fortification of that province
      5 capturing an capital gives a boonus to all your provinces

      So there are a few options to go forward:

      1. Run and take more new than you lose by revolt. This makes sense if you can get a quick victory and capture the capital within a few days.

      2. Slow and save. Fast troops forward, Slow follows and secure

      3. Immediately start building of fortifications in the new provinces

      4. Build up fortification before war. Then relocate your own capital into warzone to enhance morale there
    • 5. (AI trick) capture most of the enemy's provinces. But for AI players, leave a couple low-value provinces uncaptured. Make sure they have little or no forces to cause you problems.

      Once the capital has been captured, the AI will eventually rebuild the capital elsewhere. Then capture the capital again in that other province. Do this again and again...about once every day or so, to keep your own morale maxed out throughout your empire.

      Note that this takes finesse and practice. Don't try it near human players or they'll just capture the [future] capitals that you were saving. And make sure that you are able to keep capturing one or two capitals per day in total to prevent the daily morale changes from lowering your empire production.

      If you practice this and get good at it, you will be a formidable player in any match.
      It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all.

      The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended.

      R.I.P. Snickers <3
    • nr 5. yeah well everybody does that, but its actually not a trick, its an exploit eyh. I think they should fix that, but if they do fix that then they should make loss of morale due to distance of capital lower, especially when playing as an island nation, I think they should get a morale bonus.

      Besides.. Try doing that with hard AI and you will find out that other AI countries will declare war on you.
    • Arbales wrote:

      4. Build up fortification before war. Then relocate your own capital into warzone to enhance morale there
      Moving your capital outside your core provinces is a relatively extreme measure because of the negative impact it will have on the core provinces' morale, and consequently on their resource production. Because your core provinces produce resources at four times the rate of your captured provinces, you should usually fully improve your core resource provinces first with added levels of infrastructure, industrial complexes and naval bases (in that order), before you add significant levels of infrastructure, etc., to captured provinces.

      (And, yes, I do recognize that is usually handy to have one or more functioning industrial complexes close to your current battlefront, even when you have not fully improved your core provinces. It is, of course, a balancing act.)
    • no its not an extreme measure at all, it will raise morale faster in surounding far away provinces then it will be lost in your core provinces. besides if you have 250+ far away resource provinces getting that morale up will give you more resources. MAke all your cores on lvl5 forts and they will stay around 60% morale when the capitol is the futhest away posible. It will take 2 weeks to go from 100 to 60% morale but from 60% to 100% in those far away provinces will take a week or so. Besides its relatively fast, ancosts nothing a all to construct your capitol somewhere else.

      But yes you do indeed need to first max out your cores
    • IshXIII wrote:

      MAke all your cores on lvl5 forts
      Do the math, please.

      The typical in-game country has 22 provinces, including approximately 12 core resource-producing provinces. To add five levels of fortifications to 12 provinces requires 180,000 tons of metal (12 x 5 x 3,000), on top of the 142,000 tons of metal (12 x 16,000 - 50,000) to add five levels of industrial complex to the five pre-existing L1 ICs and the other 7 core provinces that did not have L1 ICs to start the game, and the 90,000 tons of metal (12 x 7,500) to add three levels of infrastructure to all 12 core resource-producing provinces. Apart from the stunningly large amount of resources required to fully harden all core resource provinces with L5 fortifications, there is also the time factor: it takes a full week (7 days or 168 hours) to build an L5 IC from scratch, another 5 full days (or 120 hours) to add L3 infrastructure (plus additional construction time for air or naval bases used to produce aircraft or naval units, or L2/L3 barracks), and another 5 days (or 120 hours) to add L5 fortifications. And it usually takes much longer than the 17 days minimum I just described because most countries do not produce 412,000 tons of metal in 17 days, that amount of metal cannot be purchased on the in-game commodities market, and it would require 206,000 in-game gold units to purchase 412,000 tons of steel -- and that does not even include the other in-game resources -- goods, rare materials, oil and money -- required to fully improve your core resource provinces

      Frankly, I have done the math, as well as implementing the most time- and cost-effective industrial development strategies to maximize resource production in actual games. Rarely, if ever, does it make sense to move your capital in games played on the 10-, 22- and 50-player maps because it reduces morale and production in your core resource provinces, which are four times as productive as your captured resource provinces, which is not fully offset by the increased morale and resource production in your captured provinces, and even if it does, the increased cost of fully hardening your core resource provinces rarely pays for itself in the typical 35 to 45-day game played on those maps. Moving your capital MAY make sense on the 100-player world map (and occasionally on the 50-player Pacific map), depending on the geographic location of your core provinces relative to your captured provinces, because of the usually longer timeline of the 100-player games.

      In most circumstances, not only is moving your capital "extreme," it's foolish because the added cost exceeds any benefits. I have yet to play a game in which my country did not have the largest, most productive economy by the end of the second week, and thereafter maintain that edge throughout the remainder of the game.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by MontanaBB ().

    • Prepare yourself, this too is a long read -- even longer than that other guy's post.

      Though you weren't addressing me, I have to add my two bits. I have not done the math....nor would I ever bother...even though I am both meticulous and detail-oriented. I don't need to do the math to know that maxing out your provinces is an excessive and time-consuming task that even I -- a builder (as opposed to explorers, conquerors, and other gamers' strategic personality types) -- have yet to ever fully execute in any of my matches over the past 15 months.

      Sure, I try to max out most of my core provinces and I patiently build up the non-cores that make sense. And I've even had some matches that have lasted over four months, before. So I know full well that this is an extensive and costly endeavor in every sense of the word. But I can tell you that, even in a smaller match, it can -- and often does -- become necessary to relocate your capital.

      ~0~

      Sure, you could try to keep all resource development and your capital close to home. Sure, you could be a purist and try to max out the numbers and tweak your resource output, and so forth. But you will not achieve the greatest possible results if your are always totally focused on your core provinces.

      That attitude only allows for a "stable amoeba" effect, resulting in an empire that must expand slowly in all directions...not affording to over-stretch oneself in any one direction for fear of the "unstable amoeba" which strings out your empire with many flank-side vulnerabilities and many good and decent provinces that suffer overtly from the distance-to-capital penalties. That amoeba-shaped empire loses it's effectiveness when the realities of alliances and different map shapes make it impossible to keep all productive provinces relatively equidistant to your capital.

      Instead, taking into account the more realistic attitude that few empires are ever amoeba-shaped but strung out in different directions, your typical nation-into-empire growth will follow non-uniform shorelines and allied borders, hostile bottleneck fortresses, long amphibious crossings, limited cover from short aircraft ranges, and island hopping. And this doesn't begin to describe the what-if scenarios where your enemies aren't necessarily always your next-door neighbor. You could even find yourself starting as South USA on the Clash of Nations map only to find that your primary enemies are all in eastern Europe, or vice-versa. That is not the extreme case, this kind of stuff happens all the time.

      ~0~

      The better strategy, when planning out your imperial growth, is to account for clusters of resources, which nations control those regions and how you could consider overcoming them. You need to consider which expansion directions are the most lucrative in terms of resources as well as future defensibility, which opponents have and/or will build up their Industrial Complexes high enough to permit an immediate reuse upon capture, and which opponents are building up poorly-considered weapons-tech choices that your have already better-accounted for. And there are so many other considerations that they can't all be listed here.

      You must needs be expanding to win any match of Call of War. You can't just sit at home and "grow" yourself to victory. Yes, stagnation is death in this game but you must grow outwards, not just upwards, or else your enemies will grow faster than you. And they will overwhelm you.

      The better way is to expand internally as well as externally. Build up your resources, but don't be afraid to expand others. Grow captured Industrial Complexes to quickly add more units to your army while expanding your resource production swiftly. Capture AI capitals to help fund the faster building of resources. Don't always build up Infrastructure before Industrial Complexes, especially where the IC's are already at least more than half of a level 1 IC. Plan to prioritize the capture of resources that already have been built up by the idiots that only build Infrastructure and then capture their IC's once they've finally built them up to level 2.

      ~0~

      In all that, don't be afraid to relocate your capital. The cost is minimal (1500 Goods, 5000 Money) and the benefits are exemplary. Early in a match, it might not make much sense to move it except maybe to repair morale in a distant land that is threatening to rebel because you unwisely overextended yourself in one direction because your coalition partners voted that that was the "best" path to victory.

      However, once it IS time to move your capital (and you might need to move it several times over the course of a match), you can start by only moving it a shorter distance. Since your earlier empire won't likely be very widespread, you could leave your capital unmoved. But you could also move it just to the other side of your core provinces towards your captured area without sacrificing your morale in your core provinces. Later on, if you continue to expand in the same direction, you might move your capital again a little farther.

      Maybe you have a newly-hostile threat that is encroaching your capital even though it's in your original starting point. Maybe you are South China in the Pacific Map and your capital is on your shoreline...and your are at war with Burma which just so happens to be manned by your arch nemesis and he or she is a high rated player like me. Would you unwisely leave your capital in place, building it up as a fortress only to fall in a miserable hail of massive Battleship bombardment? Or would you wisely make the more sensible choice to relocate your capital further inland while spreading out your shoreline defenses so as to protect your whole coastline and not keep all your eggs in one basket?

      ~0~

      Remember those clusters of resources I was talking about earlier? They are going to be where you don't want them to be. They will be two empires away but only lightly guarded by that player because he's so sure that you would never be his opponent (yes, there are people that make such dumb assumptions about others in this game). So, you send an expeditionary force to sneak around their main line to capture that cluster from behind, both crippling his output as well as being the perfect distraction to draw off much of his main line from their forward fortresses.

      Now that he's on the retreat, your main force suddenly appears at his forward border and captures his line of fortresses before he can realize his mistake and react to turn around and defend his stronghold because he just HAD to go to bed by a certain hour. Too bad for him...too perfect for you. Then, because you now own his line of fortresses, you only have to be patient as he desperately tries to fight you rather than surrendering those fortresses. Stupid player...but great for you. In the meantime, because he keeps bashing his head against the wall of those fortresses, you can relocate your capital behind his line in the far side of that cluster.

      Ooh, the temptation! Now, he gives up the futile assault on your fortresses and tries to go after his lost resources...greedily thinking he can capture your capital. But you planned your build to have the capital finished just before the day-change, so you gain a strong increase in morale there. Then, just after day-change, while his forces have retreated far enough away from the row of fortresses -- again -- towards your new capital, you simply just relocate it -- again -- to your core provinces.

      Oh, the frustration he feels as he finally starts to realize how well you outfoxed him. Then, he sees your forces on the charge having pursued him from the fortresses into his core. He fights as best as he can -- which isn't much -- while you overwhelm him and capture all but a few of his most worthless provinces. Eventually, he abandons the match, and you wait for the AI to rebuild HIS capital in those worthless provinces. Your plans for growth now completed, you max out your own morale empire-wide while moving your capital just a small ways back towards the direction of your new holdings. And so all is well in the world of Call of War.

      ~0~

      From my illustrations, you can see, ultimately, that there are many very good reasons to move your capital and that is not necessarily going to reduce your resource output but will actually increase it when you gain new resource provinces faster than you can build up your own. So, move your capital and move it often...or don't. I'm not telling you what to do here, but this is how I play the game and it works very well. And you'd be wise to follow my example.
      It seemed like such a waste to destroy an entire battle station just to eliminate one man. But Charlie knew that it was the only way to ensure the absolute and total destruction of Quasi-duck, once and for all.

      The saying, "beating them into submission until payday", is just golden...pun intended.

      R.I.P. Snickers <3
    • ^ Exactly, someone who completely understand me, and that from experience as well.
      Besides that, what ahs not been mentioned is that around 2 weeks in the game and later on you will still be building up your provinces, yet any AI you conquer around that time will be close, or even higher then you are. (well in most peoples cases atleast, im usually tip top in order by then).

      If you invaded 3 countries in south america, then can not expand, then invade africa and take 3 countries there. Moving your capital there too, the 100% provinces in south america will go down so slowely.. and will stay around 90% or so. better even stay on 100% if you capture a capital here and there. Which will also help to get morale up in recent conquered territories. But placing your capital there will make it go allooooot faster. Morale is the key to this game, illustrated in province morale, troop morale.. only talking about province morale, this is what helps you get lots and lots of resources more. It is easily possible to go 1on1 with someone that uses lots of gold and win. The balance in this game does make it possible, but you do need to let it work for you.
      And if you move your capital, it only takes 24h before its constructed again.But the effect is always, so even under construction the morale will be given. (which will be given in the area only after total completion of the capital).

      I play the game like Diabolical as well, and it is extremely effective, so effective that time and time again people think im putting huge sums of gold into the game, which I dont. (got nothing against it but I prefer sponsoring trough getting HC as in my eyes its pro´s are way better, id encourage everyone to get HC as its cheap and waypoint/building is superusefull, and firecontroll really is a huge gamechanger)
    • I used pictures, so my Complete Guide to Rebellions and Province Morale would only take one cup of coffee. :D :D :D


      forum.callofwar.com/index.php?…&postID=140159#post140159
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<
    • VorlonFCW wrote:

      I used pictures, so my Complete Guide to Rebellions and Province Morale would only take one cup of coffee. :D :D :D


      forum.callofwar.com/index.php?…&postID=140159#post140159
      That's how it all started. :huh:
      So - Can you now explain how if an England province gets taken by Brazil when they revolt they become Yugoslavian!?
      :wallbash
      "Es gibt keine verzweifelten Lagen, es gibt nur verzweifelte Menschen" - There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people.
      Heinz Guderian (Schneller Heinz) German WWII general and tank commander, theorist of tank combat and father of the blitzkrieg.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by dw98 ().

    • Sure, that is easy:

      The province wants to be happy.

      England failed them, so they don't want to go back to that leader, since he could not protect them in the first place

      Brazil conquered them, and the don't like that so they want to leave.

      Perhaps a couple closer countries have a low morale, either from too many wars or something.

      But Yugoslavia has a high national morale average. The people of this province want to be equally happy, and figure if the leader of Yugoslavia can make his own people happy that he ought to be able to make them happy as well.

      So in effect it is kind of like an election. There is a vote of no-confidence in the current leadership and a suitable leader is chosen from all the ones available.
      War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin keep out of the way til you can. - Winston Churchill



      VorlonFCW
      Retired from Bytro staff as of November 30, 2020.

      >>> Click Here to submit a bug report or support ticket <<<