Cores/ Formables

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    • Cores/ Formables

      It really annoys me when in 1939 historical world war, when Japan starts with Chinese territories (Shanghai, Beijing) and in a game where China reconquers them, they don't gain cores on it. Like historically, these have been the central cultural hubs of Chinese history, it would make sense for them to be cores. Same goes for Nationalist China invading Commie China and not gaining cores.

      Also, I personally think it would be fun to have the ability to form historical/ theorised nations to get cores on occupied territories. These wouldn't be broken like an american union but have something like the African Union, Nordic Union, Al Andalus, Hispanic Federation, etc.

      If it was primarily given to minor nations, it would balance the playing field on certain gamemodes
      "If you know yourself and you know your enemy, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles" or smt...
      - Sun Tzu

      The post was edited 1 time, last by -Xx_Ice_xX- ().

    • I completely see your point... but this is only a HWW thing, most scenario's are already so fictional (North and South Quebec going into some complicated Homefront war??) that it doesn't really matter, and there is no reason to give some of them some fictional advantage...
      When the fake daddies are curtailed, we have failed. When their roller coaster tolerance is obliterated, their education funds are taken by Kazakhstani phishers, and their candy bars distributed between the Botswana youth gangs, we have succeeded.
      - BIG DADDY.

    • K.Rokossovski wrote:

      I completely see your point... but this is only a HWW thing, most scenario's are already so fictional (North and South Quebec going into some complicated Homefront war??) that it doesn't really matter, and there is no reason to give some of them some fictional advantage...
      Yea I see that its really only a HWW thing, but just cores would be a relatively small quality of life update that a lot of players would appreciate. Ig in homefront or the 22 player base map it doesn't make sense tho.
      "If you know yourself and you know your enemy, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles" or smt...
      - Sun Tzu

    • -Xx_Ice_xX- wrote:

      It really annoys me when in 1939 historical world war, when Japan starts with Chinese territories (Shanghai, Beijing) and in a game where China reconquers them, they don't gain cores on it. Like historically, these have been the central cultural hubs of Chinese history, it would make sense for them to be cores. Same goes for Nationalist China invading Commie China and not gaining cores.
      I agree it's annoying for China, but I don't see formable cores as the best solution. They seem like more trouble than they are worth.
      That's if it's even necessary or worthwhile to make a change at all. Except maybe Czechoslovakia (which didn't exist in 1939, the Nazi puppet Slovakia takes its place) there's no other instances I can think of that would require this on the HWW map.

      Perhaps those two exceptional circumstances, China and possibly Slovakia, rather than having provinces become cores, could start the game with some of their core provinces occupied by Germany and Japan. Considering it's possible to have other special starts, like tech tree to Day 7 or non-peace relations in Endgame or Patriot, this should be possible.

      This would be more practical than either formable cores (which don't have any advantages over the other options) or shared cores (i.e. Communist China and Nationalist China could share core provinces which would include Japanese-occupied China, which would make a lot more sense than formable cores).

      Side note: in Shanghai's case, with no core coastal cities an expanding China usually has to use it as its main port anyway. Thus Shanghai becomes a significant part of any powerful China regardless of being core. If it were a core province it would certainly be double resource, which would mean one of China's 5 2x-resource cities would be in Japanese hands. Not good.

      -Xx_Ice_xX- wrote:

      Also, I personally think it would be fun to have the ability to form historical/ theorised nations to get cores on occupied territories. These wouldn't be broken like an american union but have something like the African Union, Nordic Union, Al Andalus, Hispanic Federation, etc.
      Having formable nations is also an a rather needless and strange idea which kind of defeats the purpose of core provinces. This has been brought up before.
      If you are playing as Spain, Portugal or Morocco aren't and can't realistically become an integral part of Spain and would always feel like occupied territories at worst and colonies at best. Having the non-core production and expansion nerfs are meant to reflect this.
      Practically, it could create problems if the cores were recaptured by the actual country.

      This is like renaming countries; now that flags are customisable, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what your country's name is and you can use your imagination and a good custom flag to play as your alternate history country of choice.
      Aeroplanes are interesting toys but of no military value.
      — Marshal Foch

      A pretty mechanical toy [...] the war will never be won by such machines.
      — Lord Kitchener, on tanks

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Lord Crayfish ().

    • Lord Crayfish wrote:

      -Xx_Ice_xX- wrote:

      It really annoys me when in 1939 historical world war, when Japan starts with Chinese territories (Shanghai, Beijing) and in a game where China reconquers them, they don't gain cores on it. Like historically, these have been the central cultural hubs of Chinese history, it would make sense for them to be cores. Same goes for Nationalist China invading Commie China and not gaining cores.
      I agree it's annoying for China, but I don't see formable cores as the best solution. They seem like more trouble than they are worth.That's if it's even necessary or worthwhile to make a change at all. Except maybe Czechoslovakia (which didn't exist in 1939, the Nazi puppet Slovakia takes its place) there's no other instances I can think of that would require this on the HWW map.

      Perhaps those two exceptional circumstances, China and possibly Slovakia, rather than having provinces become cores, could start the game with some of their core provinces occupied by Germany and Japan. Considering it's possible to have other special starts, like tech tree to Day 7 or non-peace relations in Endgame or Patriot, this should be possible.

      This would be more practical than either formable cores (which don't have any advantages over the other options) or shared cores (i.e. Communist China and Nationalist China could share core provinces which would include Japanese-occupied China, which would make a lot more sense than formable cores).

      Side note: in Shanghai's case, with no core coastal cities an expanding China usually has to use it as its main port anyway. Thus Shanghai becomes a significant part of any powerful China regardless of being core. If it were a core province it would certainly be double resource, which would mean one of China's 5 2x-resource cities would be in Japanese hands. Not good.

      -Xx_Ice_xX- wrote:

      Also, I personally think it would be fun to have the ability to form historical/ theorised nations to get cores on occupied territories. These wouldn't be broken like an american union but have something like the African Union, Nordic Union, Al Andalus, Hispanic Federation, etc.
      Having formable nations is also an a rather needless and strange idea which kind of defeats the purpose of core provinces. This has been brought up before.If you are playing as Spain, Portugal or Morocco aren't and can't realistically become an integral part of Spain and would always feel like occupied territories at worst and colonies at best. Having the non-core production and expansion nerfs are meant to reflect this.
      Practically, it could create problems if the cores were recaptured by the actual country.

      This is like renaming countries; now that flags are customisable, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what your country's name is and you can use your imagination and a good custom flag to play as your alternate history country of choice.


      This is def a better suggestion. But there are more than just Chinese cores.

      Some notable examples include;
      - Tasmania (being an integral part of Australia to this very day is not considered a core, but Papua New Guinea, an independent country in modern days is)
      - Hawaii (I know that the US has many cities but this doesn't make sense given that Alaska is considered a core and both were not states in WW2 (from my knowledge)
      - Aleutian Islands/ South Sakahlin. Both minor things, but both were considered/ still are considered key parts of their respective countries (Japan, USA, USSR).
      - Falkland Islands, Gibraltr, Possibly Malta: All territories that would make sense to be British cores, given that they are either British or voted/ wanted to stay in Britain.

      Also it makes no sense why the Germans have a core on Czechia: a majority Czech country that had just been invaded, brutally.

      Also, even if Shanghai is a major city, so is Beijing, just make them smaller producing cities
      "If you know yourself and you know your enemy, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles" or smt...
      - Sun Tzu

    • 23 years of GS gaming, no coring mechanic was about as close to a shock as I can get from any game these days. I dont see a need for it but like anything else, theres a place for it if done well.
      Not going to happen, but if it did just make it simple:you hold a province at or above X morale for Y days. Immediate side effect is to further benefit rushers which are the absolute #1-10 issue with all strategy games not counting E-Sports.
      This user has been removed by the message

    • New

      -Xx_Ice_xX- wrote:

      It really annoys me when in 1939 historical world war, when Japan starts with Chinese territories (Shanghai, Beijing) and in a game where China reconquers them, they don't gain cores on it. Like historically, these have been the central cultural hubs of Chinese history, it would make sense for them to be cores. Same goes for Nationalist China invading Commie China and not gaining cores.

      Also, I personally think it would be fun to have the ability to form historical/ theorised nations to get cores on occupied territories. These wouldn't be broken like an american union but have something like the African Union, Nordic Union, Al Andalus, Hispanic Federation, etc.

      If it was primarily given to minor nations, it would balance the playing field on certain gamemodes
      We all know that Chinese army was fairly incompetent during ww2 and in game China can be fearsome opponent already in midgame.
      Giving China more cores would make sense realistically but it will disturb game balance.
      Фарис Синановић, Суна